Reframing the Work: How climate action intersects with anti-racism

In the second episode of our Reframing the Work series, Kelly Forbes sits down with Lucy Neville, Museum Development Manager for Climate and Nature, to discuss the links between climate action and anti-racism.

They delve into the legacy of empire, and how extractivist capitalism continues to exploit people and natural resources for the benefit of the few. They also discuss the role of museums in recognising the links between climate and oppression, and how MGS is supporting museums to do this through the Climate and Nature planning course, available as part of Museum Futures.

You can find the Climate and Nature Planning course on our website.

Kelly Forbes 00:00:09
In 2023 Museums Galleries Scotland published case studies explaining what we were doing as an organisation to address anti-racism. In that time, we’ve become a Museum Transformer through the Delivering Change programme, where we’re working to understand how oppressive principles exist within our work, and how we can dismantle them. In this series of conversations, we’ll be explaining how our anti-racist work has progressed, what we’ve learned, and our next steps. My name is Kelly Forbes. I’m Digital Manager at Museums Gallery Scotland. My pronouns are she/her, and as a visual description for me, I am a white woman. I have dark brown long hair, which is currently tied back in a ponytail, and I wear very dark rimmed glasses, and I have a blue fluffy jumper on today, because it’s quite cold. And I’m here today with Lucy Neville, who is Museum Development Manager for Climate and Nature, and we’re going to be chatting a little bit about how climate and nature intersects with anti-oppressive principles, and what this means for our anti-racist work.

Lucy Neville 00:01:07
Thanks, Kelly. Yeah, so I’m Lucy Neville, Museum Development Manager for Climate and Nature, as you said. My pronouns are she/her. And as a quick visual description, I am a white woman in my mid-late 30s with curly brown hair, about shoulder length, but pulled back in a clip today, dark-rimmed glasses, and I’m wearing a turquoise fleece.

Kelly Forbes 00:01:30
So I’m going to pass over to you, Lucy. I’m really pleased that you’re here today. If you could just tell us a little bit more about your role as a Climate and Nature manager, is not really something that a lot of people in the sector will have heard of.

Lucy Neville 00:01:43
Yeah, it is quite a new role, and I’m really proud of having helped to shape it. It recognises that the climate and nature crises are real and current threats to our society, heritage, and existence. And through this role, I aim to help the museum sector in Scotland feel supported in how to take action for the planet, engage with visitors on the topic, and feel confident in the steps needed to both mitigate the impact of our industrialised world on the earth and adapt to our shift in climate and weather patterns for the good of their communities and collections.

Kelly Forbes 00:02:13
What I’m really getting from that, Lucy, is that you’re helping museums to tell stories about their collection that connect with climate and nature, and as we’re about to talk about anti-racism and climate, are obviously interconnected as well. There’s a lot of elements wrapped up in things like anti-oppression and social justice. Certainly, I have noticed those elements coming throughout in your work this year at Museums Galleries Scotland, particularly through the new Climate and Nature Planning course that you’ve developed, and I know it’s something you’ve been thinking about since you started. How have you been connecting your work with climate and anti-racism as part of our work as a museum transformer?

Lucy Neville 00:02:52
Yeah, the climate and nature crises and anti-racism are intrinsically linked for so many reasons, most notably the systems of oppression and extraction, which were perpetuated by empire, and the impacts of that, which are still being felt today. The extractivism of empire, and more recently, the modern capitalist systems that we exist within, have and continue to exploit people and planet for the gain of the few. This can be seen in the biodiversity loss of plantations, to the attempted extinction of indigenous knowledge, which have often helped societies to live with nature for mutual benefit, and not just seeing the earth purely as resource. This continues today with the climate justice movement, which highlights the ways in which those least responsible for climate change are often most impacted by it, and that can be seen in both racialized and ableist systems. I’m striving to try and better highlight these connections through my work, and I’m doing that through supporting museums to draw connections between their colonial and industrial collections and the biodiversity and climate crisis. This doesn’t mean purely highlighting the challenging histories in our collections, but by looking at modern day responsibility and actions and how those can be made by learning from our past. This is a key strand of the Climate and Nature Planning course, and something that I’m really keen to develop in partnership with much of the anti-oppression and ESSM work within MGS. The environmental sector is also one of the least diverse in Scotland, and so we should strive to make museums welcoming spaces where all audiences and staff can feel empowered to make connections to our landscape and the natural world, and feel empowered again just to take action to protect it.

Kelly Forbes 00:04:35
Now, you’ve mentioned the new training that you’ve been developing a couple of times now, could you tell us more about it for anyone who hasn’t heard of it?

Lucy Neville 00:04:45
Yes, sorry, that’s a very good point. I should outline a bit about the training. The Climate and Nature Planning course is designed to help museums and galleries see the opportunities of climate and biodiversity action. So rather than seeing those as something which is a tick box or sacrifice or means giving up a different piece of work, it’s about how can we embed those in the existing organisational plans and really see them as a crucial tool in how we build resilience more widely as a culture sector.

Kelly Forbes 00:05:19
That sounds like it must be really rewarding to deliver.

Lucy Neville 00:05:23
Yeah, I really, I really love delivering it, and the some of the ideas and just really interesting things that kind of come out of the conversations around it can be absolutely fascinating and take us in directions that we never expected.

Kelly Forbes 00:05:36
That brings me really nicely to my next question, Lucy, which was to ask about one or two of the key things that you’ve learned from others in doing this work, so either like through this planning training that you’ve mentioned, in terms of people who are learning for the first time, or even others who are doing a little bit more than us in terms of working in this space. Is there anything that stands out for you?

Lucy Neville 00:06:01
Yeah, I think one of the key things that I’ve learned is that this work is never finished, and it’s going to continue to evolve as our anti-racist practice does, as an organisation and as a sector. It’s not, and never should be, something that we just tick as done. And, as a white woman with a lot of privilege, I’m really aware that I’m not always the best person to lead on this work, and that I’m always keen to work closely with those with lived experience. I have learned that our experiences of how we connect with the natural world are endlessly varied, depending on our backgrounds, and that’s what makes this work so exciting. Every single museum practitioner and visitor is going to engage with the topic of climate completely differently and bring new knowledge and new perspectives, and while some people might find that work really challenging, there are others who are going to find it really energising, and collaborative working becomes our biggest tool in this space. So, yeah, I think that’s probably what I’ve learned is that we’re never quite done, and I’m always still learning from every person I speak to.

Kelly Forbes 00:07:06
What you’ve mentioned there also brings me quite nicely into some other questions I had around the challenges that you’ve experienced through trying to work in this intersectional way. Are there any that kind of jump out for you that you’ve really struggled with over the last few years of working with us,

Lucy Neville 00:07:23
I think being intersectional in a world of short-term funding cycles with specific project outcomes has always been a challenge for the museum sector, and continues to be so, especially in intersectional work. My work’s about helping organisations to see how their capital building projects can overlap with their anti-ableism plans, and how those can intersect with their climate action, which can in turn highlight and develop the interpretation of colonial objects, which can then maybe bring in new audiences and tell better stories of place and intangible heritage, which then often circles back to the fabric of the buildings and the ongoing capital works. So, I think, yeah, a lot of my work is about trying to show intersectionality as a positive and as something that we can really use to build our resilience, and that’s something that the new Climate and Nature Planning course really strives to do, is break some of those silos that we get caught up in in the culture sector and really encourage more collaborative thinking, which will always drive intersectionality,

Kelly Forbes 00:08:25
in your opinion, Lucy. What challenges do you see in the sector for people who are trying to work in a more climate-aware way?

Lucy Neville 00:08:33
Oh, that’s a good question, Kelly. I think to work in a more climate-aware way throws up the same challenges as so much of work in the museum sector, it’s about staff and volunteer capacity already working absolutely to their limit, and being so passionate about working in the sector often means that you go above and beyond all the time, and adding in more topics to think about just adds to that, and on top of that, there is a funding crisis in the culture sector in Scotland, where people are having to do short-term repairs or short-term fixes with the immediate need. It really lends to kind of a struggle in thinking long term about things like climate adaptation or reinterpretation of objects and audiences, when all you’re trying to do is keep your roof on in a storm and keep your staff paid.

Kelly Forbes 00:09:26
Yeah, that is a really challenging situation. I think that is universal across the board within museums in the sector at the moment. It’s one of the reasons why I love some of the advice that you provided on our website around how people can make just small little changes or even just like little interventions in their work that can make really, really big differences in terms of climate aware work. Moving on to my next question, I want to talk about climate justice. It’s something you mentioned in one of your earlier answers. What does this mean to you the term climate justice,

Lucy Neville 00:10:01
for anyone who’s maybe not heard that term before, climate justice is about the inequitable outcomes for people and places in terms of their vulnerability to the impacts of climate change. So, kind of simply put, those who are already marginalised or face barriers to accessing services and spaces in society are more often than not at a heightened risk of the impacts of the climate crisis than those who are already privileged. So I guess an example of that could be those who have access to private transport don’t have the same risks associated with access to work, leisure, food, and healthcare as those who are reliant on public transport should rail infrastructure be damaged by extreme weather events. Those with more disposable income will be less hit by rising food costs as crops become unpredictable with the shift in seasonal stability. Those in more economically deprived areas will often face far higher levels of pollution and less access to green space, which both negatively impacts mental and physical well-being, and I think as welcoming spaces, museums can help to alleviate some of that injustice. This can be done through helping audiences understand the systems of oppression that we exist within and becoming shared warm or cool spaces as temperatures fluctuate, maybe create urban green spaces within their land and grounds, becoming safe spaces for climate conversations and communities, and sharing and championing indigenous knowledge in partnership with modern science and historical data feels something that museums are really uniquely placed to do, I guess, in trying to tackle climate and justice.

Kelly Forbes 00:11:43
It’s really nice to hear that there are ways that museums can be bringing that element of climate justice into their work in a way that is relevant for them. As when people hear the term climate justice, it has quite a lot of complicated emotions rolled up in it, and maybe some people might equate that with quite disruptive protest, you know, the very kind of like top end of what we think about when we think of climate justice, but it really just is about a more fair and equitable space in terms of resources and welcoming people to your spaces and telling those stories, so it’s really fantastic to hear again that interconnectedness between how museums are working and how they can bring climate into those conversations. We’ve talked a little bit about challenges and the things that you’ve been working on previously, but can you talk to us about plans for this coming year? What will you be doing in terms of connecting climate and anti-racism in 2026

Lucy Neville  00:12:44
I mean, I guess, as I said earlier, this work is never finished, so I’m always trying to plan my next steps and ahead, although you know, best laid plans and all that. But I’m keen to develop my work with the Delivering Change team here at MGS, and to better weave anti-oppression work in general through kind of climate and nature work. I’m also currently in discussion with a number of organisations that support the global majority in Scotland, and around how we can diversify the stories of climate and nature within museums, and how we can support a more diverse range of audiences and museum practitioners to engage going forward. There is also a huge amount of work to still do, and I’m very much just at the beginning of that journey, but I am really excited to see where it leads my work, and how I can expand my knowledge and understanding of the links between climate action and racism, and yeah, we’ll see what the future holds, I guess.

Kelly Forbes 00:13:40
for anyone who’s been inspired listening to you speak about climate and nature in museums, how can they learn more, or how can they get involved?

Lucy Neville 00:13:50
Oh, there’s so many ways to get involved. First and foremost, head over to the Museums Galleries Scotland website and take a look at the Climate and Nature Planning course, it’s part of the Museum Futures wraparound support, and it’s free to any museum or gallery that has done the Organisational Health Checker. You can also always drop me a line. I’m always really happy to do kind of one on one conversations to help you understand how your museum or your journey within the heritage sector can look at these things a little bit more closely. There’s lots of other great resources out there as well, so, as well as all of our own advice guides, the Museums Association has lots of great toolkits as well, and they also have a climate justice steering group who are always keen to hear ideas, case studies, things like that, and we’ll have a range of Knowledge Exchanges and webinars coming up over the next 12 months, as well. So, keep an eye on our website, and you can always reach out to me if you want to know anything, and get out and visit more museums, and see what other people are doing, and how you can learn from each other.